Thursday, June 30, 2005

The Trouble With Masculinity

Thoughts?

5 comments so far. What are your thoughts?

Anonymous said...

My first thought is: Well, at least there is a discussion happening over there--and though it may not be the most well-reasoned in the world, people seem to be making an attempt to be kind and thoughtful in their comments.

Of course, people are still saying things like "When you have some feminists saying that guys are just glorified sperm donors..."--which is, to me at least, one of the biggest straw person sort of comments one could make. sure, I've met women who would rather never have to be in a room with a man again, but they are few and far-between; if those are the people the 'men's movement' boys want to ally themselves against, they're fighting the wrong battle, I would think. Better to ally themselves against the rapists, for instance, who are much more prevalent.

But then, I'm undecided on whether or not people who are not (very?) oppressed ought to be having movements of this kind anyway...while there IS a problem with men learning to hate themselves once they sort of 'get' how misogynist various cultures can be, is forming a movement the way to combat this? 

Posted by jpjeffrey

Anonymous said...

Hey Jeffrey,

It was my comment. And I was referring to one of Kam's posts here. If I recall correctly, the title was something like "Why men fear us."

I'm not in that conversation anymore, since I could tell that the conversation threads were pretty much passing me by, and it was largely David Moles, Hal Duncan, and Zoe at this point. But I'm open to a discussion of how I misinterpreted Kam's post. 

Posted by Patrick

Anonymous said...

Dude, did you really read that post as "glorified sperm donor"?

I guess when I get into the abortion debate, I get pretty caustic, but I'm really interested in reframing the way pregnancy is talked about, because it is so intrinisically tied to a woman and her body (pregnancy *is* a woman and her body, forming the body of another with help from a guy's sperm, yes), and I worry when I hear guys who say they should have a say about whether or not a woman has an abortion or carries a pregnancy to term.

Really, really worrid. That's my body we're talking about. So that's likely why I come off that way when the issue comes up.

I do think there needs to be a discussion (primarily among men) about how to... be better. About how to teach young guys (and women like me who link emotion with weakness) that having feelings and talking about them doesn't make you weak, that sex is really fun and cool, that guys (and women) who use violence and/or rape as weapons aren't the sort of people you look up to, and if you're comfortable in a skirt and makeup, dammit, you can wear one any damn time you want without fear of violence against you.

I think breaking that loop, imagining something really diff't, would be really cool.  

Posted by Kameron Hurley

jeff said...

Patrick (and/or Kameron),

Any chance for a link to the 'why men fear us' entry, because it's not coming up on a simple search, and I can't really respond to what you said to what SHE said without reading it.

Until I get a chance to see exactly what you're talking about, I'll give K the benefit of the doubt (especially given her reply here) that she didn't say that guys are glorified sperm donors.

Anonymous said...

Do you remember which post this was Patrick? Was it one of the abortion posts? 

Posted by Kameron Hurley