Friday, July 14, 2006

How Much is Too Much, and Who Says?

How much sex, exactly, makes a woman a slut? And why's having a lot of sexual partners still considered a "bad thing" for women, but a matter of "gaining useful experience" for men?

15 comments so far. What are your thoughts?

David Moles said...

Any. Because sex for men is supposed to be about taking something away, and sex for women is supposed to be about having something taken. If a woman sleeps with a man, he's put something over on her. He wins, she loses.

Kameron Hurley said...

And you know, I just think that's so depressing.

It's that terrible belief that all sex that women have must be, in some way, degrading.

And, you know, as a woman who likes sex, I think that's criminal.

It's funny, because all these dumb stereotypes, you actually get people one-on-one, and all of the sudden guys really want "emotional connection" and a houseful of kids, and a partner who actually *likes* sex (and no, I don't think I was being buttered up; I was pretty well buttered by the time I heard this stuff from guy buddies and lovers).

I just hate all the lying and broad generalizations so that guys can save face and women can all pretend that first-time sex is some kind of fun, mystical experience.

Arg!

Anonymous said...

If women who have sex lose and men who have sex win, does that mean in lesbian sex everybody loses?

And with gay sex everybody wins?

-- Jenn

Kameron Hurley said...

What about the bisexuals?????

Everyone's always forgetting about the bisexuals, dammit!!!!

What about orgies full of bisexuals? They must all come out about even, or just come a lot.

OH!

But, yea... cultural bullshit sucks.

Anonymous said...

Bisexuals are the only real exchange economy.

-- Jenn

David Moles said...

In the immortal words of Stephen Colbert (on the occasion, I believe, of the Jeff Gannon controversy): "Remember, it's not gay if you're the guy."

And everyone knows that the only purpose of lesbian sex is to turn straight guys on. And the only women who have lesbian sex are bisexual, because actual lesbians are only lesbians because they hate sex. Lesbians have no sex for more or less the same reasons that feminists have no sense of humor.

As for straight and bisexual women, they're supposed to like sex, but only because they're also supposed to like being degraded. Which, however, does not make it any less degrading. If anything, it makes it even more degrading.

(God, what a world, what a world.... I think what really gets to me is how even when we don't buy into it we still have to swim in the subtext.)

Kameron Hurley said...

As for straight and bisexual women, they're supposed to like sex, but only because they're also supposed to like being degraded. Which, however, does not make it any less degrading. If anything, it makes it even more degrading.

Well, that does it!

I can never have sex again with either sex. I'll be doubly degraded...

re: Colbert.

Exaaaaactly.

Oh, for the day when somebody can see sex - between anybody, or everybody at once! - as something other than a power struggle.

Or, in the case of romance novels, as a power-struggle-in-the-midst-of-a-religious-experience.

La Gringa said...

I think that it depends on who is doing the opining. I have great gal friends who have sexual appetites that I'm convinced would kill most ordinary human beings. I also know men who are very cautious about sex.

I think the term slut really isn't about a woman having too much sex; rather it's about the perception to an outsider that a woman doesn't respect herself. Which is a fallacy.

I think that David's comment is kind of sad, though. That's not what sex is supposed to be ABOUT. It's what some people's misperception of sex is perhaps.

David Moles said...

It's a widespread cultural misperception of sex that still affects people who don't misperceive it that way. "Sad" doesn't begin to describe it.

SFGary said...

just to make your discussion a bit more complete, who wins and loses if in a threesome of a bisexual, a m to f transgendered and a f to m transgendered? have a nice weekend...

Kameron Hurley said...

Yes!!! I was soooo hoping somebody would add in a transgendered person!!!

We still need an intersexed person in order to complete the set, tho...

Anonymous said...

So, if a train leaves Cleveland heading for Columbus at 70 miles per hour, and a straight woman, a gay man, a bisexual man, a straight man, a lesbian, a bisexual woman, a m to f transexual a f to m transexual, and an intersex person on board decide to have an orgy, who wins and who loses, and to what extent?

And with that number of people in the orgy, will everyone be satisfied by the time they reach Columbus?

I think properly calibrating comparative levels of winning and losing probably requires decimal places at this point. "Dude, I totally got laid last night! I won by 3.729!"

-- Jenn

Kameron Hurley said...

Jenn, you could totally make an excel spreadsheet for that...

I'm sure of it!

Anonymous said...

Really, I think there's quite the untapped market here for sex accountants. In this post-modern world, you're just going to have to pay someone to keep track of your score.

-- Jenn

David Moles said...

Not quite the same thing, but close: "The Beijing Street Prostitute's MBA lecture." (Not true, it would appear, unfortunately.)